Theological Youth Workers Network

  • Jason Santos
    Jason is a PhD. student at Princeton Theological Seminary and has worked in youth ministry in the U.S. and abroad.
  • Jeremy Watson
    Associate Pastor at Grace Presbyterian Church in Centennial, Colorado.
  • Matt Overton
    Associate Pastor at St. Andrews Presbyterian Church in Yuba City, California.

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August 23, 2006

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Comments

Jeremy Watson

i like it, Jason. bringing in the piece about authentic community is the key, as i understand it. maybe that part can come earlier in the article, to get fleshed out more. i was ready to go there earlier in the article.

i can't imagine an authentic community that didn't include fun. you can look at it as "bait and switch" or competing with culture or whatever, but the question that kept popping into my head is, "how can you possibly form community with a group, or in any relationship, if having fun together isn't a vital part of that?" it's not about programming fun, but it's allowing students to have fun and realizing that it's an important part of getting to the intentional, Christ-centered community that we want for them.

Part of our job is helping them to see that when there is trust and intimacy in relationships, and the common purpose of serving Christ and the world, then everything is more fun.
That's why mission trips are so fun for students, when "fun" is never programmed in, but it's just fun being together with a group that has been bonded together by the important things, easier for that spontaneous fun to come about.

Jason

Jeremy,
So are you agreeing with me, or were the 2nd and 3rd paragraphs a critique? I mean... I agree with everything you said and if you're thinking that I didn't say that... then I definitely need to go back. The idea was that our intentionality was geared towards Christ, but that we allow for the spontaneity of teenagers to usher in the fun. At the core of the article, I'm attempting to debunk those programs that seek to make youth ministry a big game... e.g. young life and the like. Does that come across or am I just mis-reading your comment?
J

Matt

Jas-
I liked it, but I thought the Kenda quote was a bit of a bomb dropped into the middle of the article. It felt like you went from Bluegrass to Motzart in one hop!
For my ten cents, I think the fun is only worthwhile when it builds community. I don't actually believe that kids show up for fun. I think that they do show up for fun with friends. The community aspect, in my opinion, makes the fun. So, I think I would say that our intentionality needs to be focused on community. Kids are drawn to Christ through relationships with other kids and adults. Those relationships give them the vocabulary to understand a relationship with the one true God. Fun is simply a vehicle (either successful or un-successful)to create that community. The fun itself doesn't draw us to Christ, but an authentic community does. I agree that we would be better off anticipating that fun will spring forth from the midst of that community.
By the way, I am thinking of planning a really cool event for next month as I write this!!!

Nate

hey j and all-
i was ready to stop reading this article when i read, "what we win them with....we win them to". not because the rest was bad, but because i had what i needed at that point. great stuff...write a book on it. seriously, right on the money.
and, while i am a bit more prone to using pop culture as a fun vehicle for authentic community (come on, you ARE pop culture - in postmodernity, everything is!)...and while i believe that 'baptism' offers more than a shimmer (is that what 'baptism' does for us? gives us a Christ-like shimmer? - consider it...i think its something more)...as a youth worker i would read this article and feel challenged. which is a good thing.
the only other issue i have with the article is a theological one. perhaps i'm oversensitive, but the christendom-born 'we win' language irks me a bit. do we really do this in order to 'win' young people to Christ? or, as Godbearers, are we pointing to Christ who does the winning...shaping...transforming...seems like more than semantics to me.

Jason

Well said Nor’easter...
While I too am a part of pop culture, I guess I struggle with the fact that so many youth ministers are sooooo eager to embrace pop culture (and many of them for the wrong reasons), that I have a knee jerk reaction to it sometimes.... point taken though...b/c I am pretty hip... no denying that! ;)
I'll take my baptism dig and ponder over it a bit... perhaps that's more of a personal zing than is appropriate for the article... but it was funny. Language issue on the winning thing... let me read it over again... Not sure whether I agree with you or not, but I do get your point. I'll rethink the vocab.
Thanks to all who commented. I smoothed out the Dean quote, Overton. I think that the final copy shouldn't appear so abrupt.
I'll let you all know what the end result is.
Cheerio,
J

Pastor Jeff

i agree with you, you have preached my sentiments appropriately. however i dont know whethwer fun is relative cos it like you are writing with your western mind, how about Africa.

Matt

Jeff, I don't think we can think outside of ourselves if you catch my drift. If I was in Africa then I could perhaps think of Youth Ministry as an African. We are limited by where we live. It will be up to Africans to speak about youth ministry in Africa.

Japheth nthiw'a  aka pasi

Hi, this is indeed an intersting topic for any youth worker in any part of the world. the challege is to strike a ballance between fun and the truth of the word of God. any youth ministry should have a christ centered approach to ministry. any work of the flesh is a great threat to the down fall of the minister and the ministry he is overseeing. we should allow the Holy spirit to guide us into the kind of fun to feed the youth with, anything that does not encourage them to draw close to the Lord is an enemy of their soul. the ministry of the Holy Spirit includes gloryfying the lord and if we can give Him that role in our lives as leaders of the youth then He will guide us into games and fun that leads the youth to gloryfy the Lord.

Matt

Thanks Jeff, nice to know that African youth ministers face some of the same questions as American ones. God bless.

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